After a spring that broke audience hearts and viewership records for HBO, Craig Mazin, co-creator and showrunner of “The Last of Us,” is having a complicated summer.
On the one hand, Mazin’s show just earned 24 Emmy nominations — more than any other show this year besides HBO peer “Succession.” Highlights include starring for Pedro Pascal and Bella Ramsey; as many as seven guest appearances, including deaf 10-year-old actor Kevionn Montreal Woodard; and another in the Outstanding Drama Series category.
But on the other hand, Mazin is a proud member of the Writers Guild of America, which has been on strike for 72 days against the studios, networks and streamers that are part of the Alliance of Motion Picture and Television Producers.
The prolific writer spoke Variety hours after the nominations were announced to discuss the achievements he’s most proud of, his take on the WGA’s proposed minimums for writers’ room staffing levels, and more. (Note: The discussion about Bella Ramsey and the Emmys’ gendered acting categories took place via email after the phone interview.)
Congratulations. How are you?
Very good. Very grateful. It’s a weird, weird time – mixed feelings, given the way the world works. But it was wonderful to see how many people, not only from our cast, but also from our crew, were nominated. I’m very concerned about our crew so it’s just good to see them getting the attention they deserve.
It must feel strange for your show to garner 24 Emmy nominations while you’re 72 days into the writers’ strike, with the actors potentially joining you soon.
I’m happy to talk about all of these things, especially because I want to support the working artists who created the show. It’s a shame that we celebrate what we do while we struggle with these companies that just don’t want to treat artists fairly. So like I said, mixed feelings. I see this as an opportunity to remind everyone that our business runs on the work and talent of artists and employees – all of whom are union members. And they all deserve fair contracts and the opportunity to earn a living wage and do their jobs with dignity. That’s my thesis on that.
One of the WGA’s proposals is about a minimum staff — a minimum number of writers a studio must hire, depending on how long a season is. As someone who tends to write alone, how do you feel about that point?
No one needs to be too angry on my behalf. Mike White [creator of “The White Lotus”] and I became the poster children for the lone wolf. My understanding – and it’s not just an understanding; I’ve talked about this at length with Chris Keyser and with the staff at the WGA – is that minimal staffing doesn’t necessarily affect the way I write. It’s about employment. It’s not necessarily about who’s in a room and doing what.
The truth is I am one person in a union of 9,000. I may not agree with everything the union is looking for, but then again, if you agree with everything your leaders put forward, you’re probably just a robot. Republicans disagree on everything the Republican Party says. Democrats don’t believe everything the Democratic Party says. It’s really just, in general, are your principles and philosophies aligned? And in this case, my principles and philosophies are broadly aligned with the Writers Guild. So we’ll see what happens. I don’t know what’s going to happen. I am carried by the tide like everyone else, waiting for the companies to hold it back. Literally, it’s all I keep thinking to myself. They just have to stop. It’s up to them to make this right.
On the celebratory side, the leads for Pedro Pascal and Bella Ramsey were more expected, but “The Last of Us” completely swept the guest star categories. Not just Nick Offerman and Murray Bartlett for the critically acclaimed third installment, but also Melanie Lynskey, Storm Reid, Anna Torv, Lamar Johnson and 10-year-old Keivonn Montreal Woodard, who is now the second-youngest Emmy nominee in history. Have you spoken to your cast yet?
Anna is in Australia so I’ve emailed her but I don’t know what time it is there. But I talked to Nick and Murray and Melanie and Storm and Lamar. And then I spoke to Keivonn’s mother who had no idea what was going on today. She says, ‘What? What happened?” And she’s so excited and can’t wait to talk to Keivonn – who is currently clueless because he’s in basketball camp.
And of course I contacted all our crew members. It was a busy morning of texting and emailing. 24 nominations is incredible, especially for a show in its first season. We apparently didn’t set the record – “NYPD Blue” had 27 nominations in its first season, but that was in 1993. So that’s the most in 30 years for a new show. It was really great to see the support of our colleagues like this.
Bella Ramsey has said she’s not comfortable with gender-based award categories, though they’re now nominated as “actress.” Have you talked to them about this before? What’s your take on how the Emmys can honor non-binary artists?
I talk to Bella about everything, so of course we talked about this. It’s a really interesting challenge. On the one hand, the conversation about gender has changed profoundly and in a very progressive and positive way. On the other hand, we practically have to make sure that by moving away from gender categories, we don’t short-change people who are traditionally overlooked… and we know that women in non-gender categories like directing and writing have historically seen to be undervalued. I don’t know the answer, but I am confident that non-binary performers will soon be recognized in the respectful and appropriate manner they deserve.
And we don’t normally see genre shows perform like this – especially video game adaptations. You’ve been on a hit show before, but did the reception of “The Last of Us” still feel like a shock?
Anyone who says they expect what happened to ‘The Last of Us’ may be a sociopath. No one should be thinking, “The show is going to be seen by 30 to 40 million people and it’s going to get all these Emmy nominations.” We would have been very happy with just good ratings and good reviews, but it was overwhelming.
We can’t wait to get back at it. Again, we’re all sitting here excited, but also just waiting for the companies to… Stop it! To just stop what they’re doing so we can get back to work making the next season of “The Last of Us.” We’re ready to go. The city must be able to get back to work.
I know you want to celebrate your team. Is there a nomination you are most proud of?
[Being nominated for outstanding drama series] is the biggest, because it includes everyone’s work, including people who may not have received a nomination, all the people who worked so hard on the show. So the show will always be the one I’m most proud of.
But individually, Keivonn was the one who made my heart jump this morning. He’s so young. This is his first acting job. We actually just found him, for example via Twitter. And he was so much fun to work with. Such a beautiful boy, who did such a beautiful job. I can’t imagine what it must be like as an eight year old to take a job you’ve never done before, not be afraid and just be good at it. So with that one, I was just so tickled. I just loved that.
What about your nominees below the line?
That’s a tough one, because they’re all my family. It’s hard to pick one that excites me the most. But there were those who left that are interesting. For example, Emily Mendez going from assistant editor to editor and getting an Emmy nomination is great. It’s always fun to watch people get into a job and so absolutely crush it. I’m always just looking for opportunities to hire people who do great work and take them to the next level. It’s selfish, really. I want the benefit of their work!
Finally, are you doing anything to celebrate your nominations today?
You asked the wrong person. I don’t think I’m celebrating. I’m at a point in my career where I’m very comfortable; this strike will not cause me serious financial damage. I know that is not the case for many people. So it’s hard to jump up and down and say, “Hooray!” when I know people are suffering. Like I said, it’s a day of mixed feelings.